To me, “GvR repeats the confusion between X and Y” sounds like “GvR is wrong”, and that’s what I disagree with. I am not wrong in making this distinction.

Still, I do think that two different language categories are generally “confused” while there are enough differences to maintain them apart. Not just in their programming environments, but also in the way they work.

I don’t think I am “confused” in this matter either, although I’m clearly disagreeing with “how these terms are usually understood”.

Once again, I’m sorry you took my dissenting opinion as a personal attack.

The distinction you are trying to make is more between languages with a big programming environment built in (Smalltalk, many Lisp systems) vs. (more traditional) languages with external programming environments (Java, some Lisps, most other languages).

I think you owe me an apology for claiming that I am “repeating a confusion.” I know perfectly well what I am talking about, and most people would agree with my terminology. You are the one who is “confused”.

The names I’ve used are possibly not the best, but I do think there’s a real difference on how Lisp and Smalltalk worked when compared to languages like Python or Perl.